death of a non believer

1. Quote from: chalky on December 07, 2011, 05:38:19 PM
Hi Chaplain.
Can you elaborate on the Resurrection for believers, do you mean if we as believers die now that we don't go straight into heaven? as i have always struggled with the understanding of this, i.e. John 6.44: “ For no one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws them to Me and at the last day I will raise them up.”.
I thought that this meant we would die and go to sleep and at the last day we would be raised up, but someone said that in Luke 23:43 Jesus answered him " Truly I tell you, today you will be with Me in paradise". Meaning that we as believers will go into Heaven at death.
Richard

I'm sorry to take so long in replying to a direct question, but so many new topics being entered at once has been one factor; giving this question proper thought and prayer has been another. With that being said, I will share with you what "I" believe, and why "I" believe as I do. I'm sure that there are those who will disagree with my position and I take no offense at that. I will simply say that as others give "their" views, pay close heed and study scripture for yourself, as this is one of the areas where Paul encourages us to "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12). I say this because this particular doctrinal viewpoint is NOT "critical" concerning our salvation, nor do I believe that ANYONE is 100% correct in understanding doctrinal viewpoints presented in scripture; including MYSELF!

That being said, here are my views:

I believe that when a person dies, their soul goes SOMEPLACE! The believer’s soul enters paradise in a conscious state. Paul writes in 2Corinthians 5:8 ,that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. I have already mentioned Luke 16 and I have read LSA’s response. Personally, “I” do not agree with this position because I do not believe that Jesus would speak of such horrors in a manner of satire. I believe that Jesus spoke of hell VERY “seriously”; so much so, that He actually spoke more about hell than He did about heaven! In Revelations 14:9-11, and 20:10,11, and 15, we are given the fate of those who fail to heed the word of God. I believe that the terms “tormented” and “forever and ever” have a literal meaning!

Concerning believers entering paradise in a “conscious” state; I have already cited “Lazarus” in Luke 16, but I also note the Transfiguration of Jesus. When this took place, two other “humans” appeared at that time; Moses and Elijah. While some claim that this was a “futuristic vision”; I do not agree. In Luke 9:31, we are told that these men appeared with Him IN GLORY! Not only that, but they both “spoke" of His decease, which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem.”! This denotes to “me”.....PRESENT TENSE! Revelations 6:9-11 also speak of those who were killed during the Great Tribulation. In this passage they are “consciously” speaking! The fact that both Enoch, (Genesis 5:24) and Elijah, (2kings 2:11) did not see death, leads me to believe that they remained “conscious”! Stephen’s martyrdom as recorded in Acts 7:54-60 also contribute to “my” belief.

As for the many scriptures that speak of death as “sleep, rest, unconsciousness, etc.”; “I” believe that these refer to our BODIES! I believe that we can exist consciously “apart” from our bodies. I believe that Jesus, Himself did this as His body laid three days and nights in the tomb and that there are many scriptures (too numerous to list here; forgive me, please?) that support such a position. I also believe that Paul alludes to such an occurrence in 2Corinthians 12:2-4. Thus, “I” believe that those who meet the Lord in the air at the rapture (another doctrinal viewpoint that I believe in) will be reunited with their bodies at this point. Then, those who are alive and remain, will be “changed” into a glorious new body and caught up to heaven with the Lord (2Thessalonians 4:13-18). Those "believers" who are killed during the next 7 years will be separated from their bodies, but reunited with them at the physical return of Jesus Christ, at the conclusion of the battle of Armageddon. This is also when those who were “caught up” in the rapture will return with Christ; as His mighty army. This is also the beginning of Christ’s millennial reign and it is at the end of this period that Satan will be released one final time, and for all those who died outside of Christ’s salvation, including those who died during the Great Tribulation that I mentioned earlier; these will be resurrected to stand before the Great White Throne in judgment. Immediately after this, I believe that 2Peter 3:10-13 and Revelations 21:1 will be fulfilled simultaneously. There is much more to be said on this particular subject, but for now, I will not delve into it as a means to keep this as brief as possible! Entire books have been written on this very subject and one can easily do the same here! You do have what “I” believe and why I believe as I do, and as others comment on what I have written, I will only suggest that you “prayerfully” work out your own salvation (i.e. doctrinal beliefs) through “testing” these viewpoints according to scripture; fair enough??

Now, concerning your prayer that God would “send His angels” to your dying friend; He did! I’m sure that He did MANY times throughout this man’s life too! I will add that He may have as this man was dying too! Many people who have appeared to be comatose, have expressed an “awareness” during this state, so I will say that only God knows what took place with this man during this time! My advice to your surviving friend remains the same; live as though this person DID make it to heaven. If he DID, then we will ALL see him again. If he did NOT make it to paradise, then he certainly does not wish for us to join him!

Finally, to all the other members of WWCO that read this response; I have only shared “what” I believe and why. I am not interested in creating “heated” debates over any differences in viewpoints. I will read each position “prayerfully”; as I have changed my position on many things over the years, but please do not take my unwillingness to agree with your positions PERSONALLY; fair enough??

Richard, I hope this covers your questions to me satisfactorily??

Merry Christmas.....and God bless!